Path: spln!rex!extra.newsguy.com!lotsanews.com!newsfeed.mathworks.com!nntp.abs.net!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!gemini.tycho.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Approved: sci-military-moderated@retro.com Return-Path: news@uark.edu Delivery-Date: Thu Apr 18 12:14:16 2002 Delivery-Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:14:16 -0700 for <sci-military-moderated@retro.com>; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:14:14 -0700 (PDT) id 16yH4E-0003cq-00 for sci-military-moderated@moderators.isc.org; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 20:55:38 +0200 <sci-military-moderated@moderators.isc.org>; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:55:34 -0500 for sci-military-moderated@moderators.isc.org; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:55:34 -0500 (CDT) To: sci-military-moderated@moderators.isc.org From: "Paul Byers" <pavel@uark.edu> Newsgroups: sci.military.moderated Subject: plinking (was MBT survival of Mk-82 bomb Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 18:56:42 GMT Organization: University of Arkansas Message-ID: <a9n4r5$6cc$1@comp.uark.edu> References: <3f224cda.0204151858.58bdbaf6@posting.google.com> <3cbdb228.2046288@news.ntua.gr> <497f097b.0204171740.7a3afb09@posting.google.com> Reply-To: pavel@uark.edu X-NNTP-Posting-Host: 130.184.172.247 X-Complaints-To: abuse@uark.edu X-NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 18:55:33 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: News Rover 7.3.2 (http://www.NewsRover.com) Content-Length: 2745 Lines: 49 NNTP-Posting-Host: c0bff52b.newsreader.tycho.net X-Trace: 1019184689 gemini.tycho.net 79561 205.179.181.194 X-Complaints-To: abuse@tycho.net Xref: spln sci.military.moderated:44589 On 17-Apr-2002, waltbj1@mindspring.com (Walt BJ) wrote: > Back in the mid-70s when I was in durance vile as a deputy base > commander at Bitburg doing penance for flying fighters we sent some > F4s to Grafenwoer for a fire power demo using live ordnance. One of > our good crews got to dive-bomb triple-release live Mk82s on a target > tank. Unfortunately the middle one that hit the tank square dudded. > The Army troops immediately said 'Hah Lookithat!" > One of the AF types said 'Go look at the tank." Result - one > Mk82-diamter hole clean through the tank from top to bottom. Don't > know what type tank it was - suspect it was an old M47 or 48 because > they seemed to be the most prevalent target tank over there. BTW > release speed was probably 450 and impact therefore around 750 FPS. In the Mid-70s I was at Erwin (before it was the national training center.) and go to see some A-10s working a bunch of M114 on a range. With the gun and 500lb bomb, both live and training. They got about 30% kills on their gun runs... Less than 10% on their bomb passes, not that the bomb passes that hit were not spectacular. This was without any cover, or camo, or smoke, or evasive maneuver, or counter fire. In the same 2-3 hour time it took the A-10s to make a complete run a company of tanks could rotate through the range and hit every target. And I will not hardly mention the time one of the A-10s bombed the wrong range... > And to cheer up the armor > types - the track marks on the ground are clearly visible and at one > end is usually a tank. Or a Vulcan, ZSU-23-4 or other anti-air asset. I flew remote attack and target drones at Ft. Hood for a while. Our drones would only do 200mph but they were only 5 foot wingspans also. Attacking a ready platoon of tanks was about 50% survivable per pass. (we did get close enough to drop CS grenade.) Attacking a platoon with a Vulcan in the mix was pretty much time to build a new drone. Not that I think a fast mover would be as easy to hit, nor would it be as accurate as our drones. Moving fast enough not to be easy meat for AAA and SAMs doesn't lead to great accuracy. Most fast movers are so high and fast they can't see anything as hard to follow as track marks. Helos are a different matter. But at least U.S. AFVs have effective ways to deal with them. For the fighter jockeys... planes spend most of their time on the ground...where they are easy targets... Ask the Egyptians and Iraqis. Runways don't move and are hard to miss. Most planes can't hide where they live. That is why before plinking AFVs you blow up the air bases and all those parked planes. They are big enough and immobile enough you can use 2000lb laser guided bombs by choice. Pavel